I made a small flat 5x5 map with no terrain features as a test base (using hazardX's map editor v0.45) and used 1 Sorian AI 1.4 (with the behaviour mod enabled for Sorian AI only) and one default Balanced AI as guinea pigs. I launched a LAN game with me as observer, 500 unit cap and no fog-of-war.
1.
First i made a map with absolutely nothing on it except two starting points.
I expected to see two ACUs sitting there, doing nothing.
To my big surprise the ACUs started with their standard buildorder (minus the mexes) and built massfabs instead! Nice feature of the AI, the economy model seems to work very good! Both used their ACU to build, fight and to assist factories, nice! As mass was very valuable on this map they both used their builders to reclaim wrecked units, good work here, too. The Sorian AI had some advantages as it scouted more often. The default AI did build scouts but after the first one it didn't use them anymore.
2.
Added two far away mass points and a close-by hydrocarbon-powerplant.
Results: Devastating! The ACU ran back and forward without doing anything, after ~5 minutes the Sorian AI accidently built half (!) of a massextractor but never finished it. Conclusion for AI-usable maps: Better NO resource points than far-away resourcepoints!
3. I tried different numbers of metal points at the starting point and even with only one the AI was happy and could build:
What is interesting: Even without any other markers the AI did quite well. As Sorian said, the AI will attack from random directions, i could see that by pressing shift.
4. I added 1 rally point at the west side of the bases.
Both AIs used it, intertestingly the southern AI even built some turrets there (no matter if Sorian or default AI), the northern AI didn't.
5. I added 2 more rally points to the bases:
Sorian once guessed that this will confuse the AI, but it doesn't. The AIs had no problems at all, but there was one major difference between the AIs: The default AI used all rally points, if a factory was closer to the eastern point it used the eastern rallypoint. The Sorian AI however used only 1 (!) rally point, i moved them for a test and no matter what i tried it still would only use 1.
6. I added 1 attack marker:
Much to my surprise the AIs only used it until they had scouts available! And they did not use it as a point-of-attack, but rather as a very-low-priority waypoint! Again: As soon as the AI had gathered recon data the attack markers became useless. They only seem to work as waypoints directly at the start, i think they are there to help the AI find its way on larger maps. The AI will no longer use them once it has enough recon-data of the area the marker is in.
7. I added a second attack marker:
The results were the same as before: As soon as the AI had enough recon-data it stopped using them, but it used them as waypoints UNTIL that moment.
8. Made a last test and added 2 "Expansion markers"
No surprise here, the AI built factories and defenses there. But only once it considered the area to be safe enough. As long as the area was a battlefield no buildings were built there. Interesting side-effect: Once i added the expansion markers the AIs started to build defenses around their main base, too.
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So, here a complete list of the markers with some suggestions for using them:
A. The starting point marker
Nothing much to say here, except that the AI might have trouble (e.g. doesn't move) when it is placed on unusable terrain (indicated by a brown colour of the symbol in hazardx's editor). HazardX stated that these dark-red markers still might work, though. I might need to make some more tests about that...
B. The island marker
Scathis (the main GPG AI developer) stated that the AI only builds expansion bases on islands if the island marker is on that island. So if you want the AI to build factories on a second island : Use them. Defense markers however will work without the island marker.
C. The metal marker
Same as the starting point marker: Make sure you place it on useable terrain and there will be no problems. Btw, interestingly Seton's Clutch has some unusable (for the AI) metal markers.
D. The hydrocarbon marker
See A and C, nothing much to say.
E. The combat zone marker
The AI uses them as very-low-priority waypoints, if the AI has scouted an area or a fight is happening close-by, the AI will skip this marker completely and even "forget" about it. Still, the marker is very useful to help the AI find it's way, especially on large maps. And place one in the starting positions to provide a basic waypoint for the AI. Sorian further explained that the combat zone markers serve as "fail-safe" waypoints for the AI as well, if it hasn't enough recon-data it will scout or move to these markers.
F. The defense point marker
The AI will build turrets and walls at these points, multiple of them are possible and even desired. One thing, though:
Try to place rally points in FRONT of them, if you place them BEHIND them units will get stuck. Leave enough place between these two markers, too. HazardX has observed that the defenses MIGHT be facing into the direction of the next attack zone marker, again more testing is required here...
G. The rally point marker
The default AI will use multiple markers if you add them, the Sorian AI not (v1.4). It won't hurt to add multiple of them. Just like defense markers, simply place them on locations from where the enemy might attack. The defense marker and the rally point marker are the most important markers. The rally points seem to work for naval factories, too. (see J for special placement tips)
H. The experimental marker
The AI will build (AIR) experimentals preferably at those points. Multiple markers won't hurt, but more than 2 per player should not be needed, as the AI will build Experimentals at random locations even when all the marked positions are used. According to Sorian these markers are used for Air experimentals only. For Land Experimantals the AI uses rally points, and Naval Experimentals use naval makers.
I. The expansion point marker
The AI wil build factories, turrets and bases there ONCE the area is secure. If you want the AI to build expansion-bases on islands: Add the island marker! Be creative with their placement. Multiple markers per player possible and wanted. Placement of defense and other markers close-by makes sense.
J. The naval area marker
Nothing special (the AI will build naval factories and defenses there), but the placement is VERY tricky. If you place it too close to the beach units will get stuck. If you place it at a cliff, the AI will not be able to reach the point at all (see Seton's Clutch). If you place it too far away the AI will consider it low-priority. And remember that the AI will build multiple naval factories and defenses, make sure there is plenty of room where you place it. And add attackzone markers/rally point markers to help the extremely weak naval unit pathfinding a bit. And remember that the ships are built on the left side of the naval factories. If a beach is to the left, too, units might get stuck!
If you have any suggestions and ideas or even think my ideas to be wrong and can prove it, mail here i will update the guide accordingly. Have fun!
A small tip: Somebody discovered that the AI (if it has NO recondata) will go for the upper left corner, so if you do plan to make e.g. 1 Human vs. 7 AI maps do place the human in the upper left corner.Same for skirmishes: if you want a bigger chalenge, place yourself in the upper left corner.
Another thing to mention: The newer (> 2.0)Sorian AIs feature several advanced code-scripts that combine the features of some markers at one location, e.g. expansion and defense markers. This will make it easier for mapmakers, albeit they should keep in mind that the default AI does not use this AI-features.
Credits: Many thanks to Sorian, Giscard, Scathis, sveno, yacoub, painangel, AnonymousOne, Jaws2002, jureidinim, relentless, ArchAngel, hazardX and all others!
edit: Added pictures of the markers from the official map editor and note about newer Sorian AIs. Thanks LeVirusWatts for the friendly "poke"
|||Here some screenshots i took during the tests. 
Default AI's scouting does not work properly , after some scouts it simply doesn't move them anymore.
The AI uses random directions to attack from. And as you can see, the Sorian AI scouts work flawlessly :)
This happens when the resource points are too far away from the starting positions, the ACUs will run forward and backward, but never reach their destination.
AI without behaviour mod NOT attacking engineers when it could :/ Seconds later it did, though.
One resource point at the starting position is enough to get the AI going.
Rally point works.
Tip for Sorian: The default AI builds hydrocarbon powerplants, the Sorian AI not. (or at least they seem to have a lower priority)
see text above
The southern AI even builds turrets at the rally points. Not important which AI used, the position seems to make a difference!!
Close-up of expansion point.
Upload Pictures for free with PicTiger|||Couple of things I would like to mention.
Quote:|||This is a big help! Thanks for your work. I wonder how much if any of this will change in the big patch (especially since the AI is likely to have been tweaked a bit in the patch).
Other thoughts posted here:
http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic. ... 286#101286|||Sorian, that would explain why the Sorian ACU did at least build a half Mex whereas the default AI couldn't :)
And yes, the attack point markers seem to be "fail-safe" waypoints. In the normal game they will see not much usage, but once the recondata isn't there they get interesting again. I will add that to the guide, thanks for the input!|||One last thing to mention. Experimental build spots are used for Air Experimentals only. For Land Experimantals the AI uses rally points, and Naval Experimentals use naval makers.|||thank you Aralez!
this is a big help to us mappers!|||My pleasure, sveno! :) And i will add the info about the experimental locations right away, sorian!
edit: Added symbols and credits|||Nice work Aralez! Some things i'd like to note:
- A dark red marker in my editor is more of a warning than an error and shows that the location is not ideal for this kind of marker and MAY not work as intended. You'll find some of those dark-red markers in official maps, but they usually work and are just not placed on ideal terrain.
- The defenses build at defense points seem to be build in direction of the next combat zone marker. i'm not 100% sure about this, but my observations seem to confirm this theory. Maybe one of the AI coders can check this AI behaviour in the scripts.|||Gee, thanks HazardX. I will add the info about the dark-red markers and the defense points right away!
Btw, your map-editor is awesome, i wish i could program like that.. (or program at all)
|||Note: http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic. ... 073#102073AI has no trouble sending attacking units up and over large elevation changes. What you saw that made you think they didn't want to was probably just the stockpile bug. :)|||1.5 should have that bug fixed.|||how about adding this to the official unofficial wiki for supcom? :)
http://supcom.wikia.com
would be a great resource and less AI-wise messed up maps flying around :)
PS: if you need help with that, i'le help...|||sveno, if you want you can copy-n-paste the guide in the wiki, i do not have ANY experiences with wiki's at all (except reading them)
|||will do!putting a link to this thread and your name on it.
edit: splitting it to "Use of AI-Markers" and "AI-Markers indepth"
PS: you are free to edit it after it's posted, its rather easy :)|||Gee, many thanks!|||
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Markers_explained http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Markers_indepthgood work!
about to setup something like "Map Layouting"...
edit: please tell if i should remove something you do not like :)|||Nothing to remove, everything is fine! Wow, that looks so ..."official"! I'm almost scared a bit
|||it's also about keeping those picture hosted - freehoster have to delete the pictures in near future to keep that service going, wikia not that soon (hope so).pictures are somewhat important to us mappers
|||Quote:|||sorian|||Isn't that the one Aralez ran a test on. Version 1.6 of the Sorian/Jaws2002 AI pack works great on that map. Our All version of the AI pack should even fix it for the default AIs. The problem isn't with the threat map, it is the fact that the AI believes the only way to get from one base to another is by transport and transports for the default AIs are broken.The transports are fixed for 1.6 of the Sorian/Jaws2002 AI (to be released soon) as well as the AIs mistaken impression that it is unable to pathfind there by land.|||sorian|||great tut, thanks!
- Sil|||Thanks for the nice comments everyone, once the official editor has been released i will make a new guide.
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